You may wonder what the connection is between passion and what I’m about to talk about.
I’ll spell it out for you, and if you’re anything like me you’ve heard about it before, but you don’t know what it means. And understanding it makes all the difference, as you can see from these pictures of me:
Okay, so neither of those is me, but there are a reasonable facsimile of how I look to my husband depending on whether I’m bringing this key ingredient to the relationship.
My guest Kathy’s marriage story has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, First for Women Magazine and in an interview with the BBC that went viral on several continents.
But she made a decision that changed her life forever and now has a dreamy marriage to the same man.
She is going to tell us exactly what she did to single-handedly turn her marriage around and make it passionate again.
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Laura Doyle: My guest coach Kathy Murray has been featured in The Wall Street Journal first for women magazine and in an interview with the BBC that went viral on several continents.
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Laura Doyle: She was in a sexless second marriage stressed out over her stepchildren worried that she was likely headed for another divorce.
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Laura Doyle: But she made a decision that changed her life forever, and not only has a dreamy marriage to that same man.
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Laura Doyle: Today, she’s a master relationship coach who has helped thousands of women over the last 19 years make their broken down relationships dreamy, too. Thanks for coming on Episode one of the Empowered wife podcast to tell us the secrets of how you fixed your marriage, Kathy
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Coach Kathy: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Laura. Thank you so so much really pleasure.
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Laura Doyle: So I’m dying for everyone to hear the whole story because your story is tremendous. So take us back to the very beginning. What was your relationship like how are you struggling
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Coach Kathy: Well, Laura. I think I need to start with my first marriage if I’m honest, I just got married young and I didn’t have any skills. I just really was in love and wanted to have a family. And so I did. I got married.
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Coach Kathy: We had two children, but soon into that marriage, I realized I made a really big mistake. I mean, he was immature. He wasn’t responsible and here I had become responsible because I had two children.
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Coach Kathy: And he was staying out late at night, he was drinking, he was using drugs and constantly wanting sex from me and I just wanted nothing to do with physical intimacy.
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Coach Kathy: I denied him constantly and I realized I had some sexual injuries. I hadn’t really dealt with.
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Coach Kathy: Oh, I just gave him an ultimatum at one point, my youngest child was not even a year old, and I said, you either shape up or get out
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Coach Kathy: Wow. Yeah. It was scary. And I thought I was going to be alone as a single mom with two kids. But really, the truth is I wanted him to shape up and I thought that ultimatum would work.
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Laura Doyle: Did it work?
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Coach Kathy: No! It back fired
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Laura Doyle: It did.
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Coach Kathy: he ended up leaving that week I came home from work one day and all the furniture was gone, and he was gone. And I realized, oh my goodness, he’s left. What am I gonna do
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Coach Kathy: Yeah, so the next day I found out he had rented an apartment and I found out where that was. So I went to the apartment.
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Coach Kathy: And knocked on the door and a woman answered, Laura.
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There was another woman.
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Coach Kathy: oh
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Coach Kathy: Needless to say,
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Coach Kathy: I made a really big scene at that apartment complex, all of a sudden I wanted my husband. So I went from you lose your pads get the heck out grow up or get out to all my gosh, that’s my husband, um,
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Laura Doyle: So at that point, you wanted to make the marriage work.
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Coach Kathy: Mm hmm. So what did you do
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Coach Kathy: I told her to get out that that’s my husband and I really tried to get him to talk, but he wouldn’t. And he ended up filing for divorce. I didn’t know how to interact with him. I didn’t know how to communicate. I didn’t know how to convey
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Coach Kathy: I didn’t have any skills. I just didn’t know I was so so unaware of what to do and and that I regret. I really do.
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Laura Doyle: But this must have been incredibly painful at the time, you have two babies.
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Laura Doyle: He’s left you for another woman that must have been heartbreaking.
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Coach Kathy: It was so hard I ran home to my moms and just cried, and I didn’t know what to do and
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Coach Kathy: And
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Coach Kathy: That was hard was scary. I didn’t ever imagine that’d be a single mom with two kids by myself.
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Laura Doyle: But that is what happened. And then, but then you found love again.
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Coach Kathy: I did, I met Doug on a blind date some friends of ours thought, wait, we want to hook you up. Kathy up with Doug. And so we met on a blind date.
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Coach Kathy: And we started dating. And what’s so funny is that I had told some friends that next time I fall in love. I want to meet a mature sober man, I just put it out the universe.
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Coach Kathy: And so here I meet this man, he’s 12 years my senior and he was not drinking and not drugging and I was just so happy, like, oh, maybe he’s the one
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Laura Doyle: This is gonna be so much better than your first marriage, right, because that guy was drugging and drinking. That was the problem. He was the problem and now you’re going to have much better relationship
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Coach Kathy: Yeah.
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Laura Doyle: How did that turned out.
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Coach Kathy: Wow well. We dated for three years and then we did get married, and soon into the marriage things went to hell. It was just constant fighting and conflict and his kids came to live with us unexpectedly, and they created a lot of havoc in our home and
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Coach Kathy: I just don’t know what happened but I just know the feeling. I was having was tension conflict constant fighting and he wasn’t attracted to me anymore.
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Laura Doyle: He wasn’t so what were you doing to try to fix this relationship.
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Coach Kathy: Oh, I took him to marriage counseling and I sent his kids to counseling and then we went as a family. Also, and of course, none of that, or none of it worked. And so I
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Coach Kathy: gave another ultimatum. That’s all I knew what to do. And I just, yeah. I just said fine, we’re in a sexless marriage and I moved into the guest room.
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Laura Doyle: Wow, okay. And so
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Coach Kathy: We didn’t talk for days. It was really tense and I was sure I was going to be filing for another divorce.
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Laura Doyle: You are going to file this time. Mm hmm.
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Coach Kathy: I was done. Yeah, this is really painful to be
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Coach Kathy: Constantly. I used to beg and plead and cry for physical affection. A really much preferred watching TV with the dog I have pictures that I would show them and say, look, you want to just hang out with this dog. What about me as a wife. Yeah, I’m your wife.
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Coach Kathy: Oh, so I was low. It was low point in my marriage.
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Laura Doyle: So you were really suffering. It was too painful to stay married with that constant reminder that you were unlovable. Well,
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So did you file.
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Coach Kathy: No, I went to the bookstore to find a book that someone recommended and I found your book instead
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Coach Kathy: And I read it that weekend.
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Coach Kathy: And for the first time, I, I didn’t feel alone.
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Coach Kathy: I felt like, oh my goodness, I’m not the only one who’s struggling here and
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Coach Kathy: So I, I came home and I thought, I’m gonna try this out.
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Coach Kathy: I didn’t know what to say or do, but I remembered one little phrase. And I thought, I’m going to try it out.
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Laura Doyle: What was it
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Coach Kathy: Well, I came through the door after being gone for the weekend and remember we were sleeping in separate bedrooms, we’d been not talking, we’ve been fighting and so I was nervous to come home.
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Coach Kathy: And when I walked through the door. He came right up to me and said, What do I do with this cell phone plan.
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Coach Kathy: And I said, whatever you think
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Coach Kathy: And he said, No, no, no, no. You need to tell me what to do with the cell phone plan.
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Coach Kathy: And I just could hear his, his insistence, and I could relate, given the book, I just read to just how unsafe. I had made it by being controlling and emasculating him all these years by not trusting that he could make any decisions.
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Coach Kathy: And so I said, whatever you think
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Coach Kathy: I trust you to make that decision for our family.
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Coach Kathy: And it Laura. It was so foreign. And I’d never said such a thing. So it was just so different for me. But it was so so different for him. He walked away scratching his head going, What happened to my wife.
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Coach Kathy: And he made that decision. And that night I decided to crawl in bed with him.
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Coach Kathy: For the first time in six months, and he put his hand on my shoulder, and he said you were so nice today.
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Coach Kathy: And the tears just roll down my face and I just knew I had to reach out to you and ask you to help me save my marriage.
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Laura Doyle: And that’s exactly what you did. You did reach out to me.
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Coach Kathy: I did.
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Laura Doyle: That when we met up for coffee actually right.
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Laura Doyle: And so, okay, so I want to go back just for a second to
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Laura Doyle: Some of the pain points so
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Laura Doyle: You’re saying this was so
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Laura Doyle: Foreign for you. And so foreign for him that you would say whatever you think so. I mean, what kinds of things were going on in your marriage, where it sounds. It sounds like you were making a lot of the decisions.
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Coach Kathy: All Laura i i was a CFO for a private school so I managed a whole school budget. So therefore I managed all of our money. I was the breadwinner
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Coach Kathy: And I thought I was more capable of making those decisions. So yep, there was a time when I bought all the Christmas presents
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Coach Kathy: And I remember him looking at me one time and say what I don’t get to buy any Christmas presents
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Coach Kathy: I said, Oh, no, I bought them already. And they’re all wrapped and I I painted the picture, like I did a good favor for our family, really, I just wanted to make sure everybody got the same amount. There were no favoritism and he didn’t spend too much. I mean, wasn’t responsible and
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Coach Kathy: Remember, another time, we were going to put tile in our kitchen, and we went to the home improvement store to make that tile selection and I just bulldoze the conversation and completely took over what we were going to buy the quantity we were going to buy and here. He’s a builder, Laura.
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Coach Kathy: And I just thought I was going to be in charge of how much we spent and what we decided, I just looked at his face in front of that woman. It didn’t matter to me that it was like white. I was gonna get my way no matter what.
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Laura Doyle: And so, and, and then you had this epiphany that maybe you had something to do with him wanting to snuggle with the dog and not so much with you and
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Coach Kathy: Yeah, when I read your book, The surrendered wife I saw my life. In fact, I thought, Oh my gosh, this, this woman have a camera in my house.
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Coach Kathy: You wrote the book about me. I mean, I think it’s why I felt so connected to you and I so appreciated your courage to tell the truth, because here’s the thing. I was living a lie in my public life.
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Coach Kathy: I was a as I mentioned a CFO for private school and I was on the chamber board and active in my kids school and no one knew what was going on at home. I really pretended quite a lot in the public eye.
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Coach Kathy: There, everything was fine at home.
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Laura Doyle: Did your friends know
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Coach Kathy: A couple of close girlfriends new and they told me one time, one friend told me either. Shut up, or get a divorce. They got so tired of hearing me complain about Doug move
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Laura Doyle: And so that must have felt like a little bit of a
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Coach Kathy: Slap, definitely. So that’s why I reached out to you because I didn’t know what to do. And here you would had similar story. And I thought, you’re going to be understanding and helpful. Yeah.
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Laura Doyle: And so this was gosh about 19 years ago that we first met, and you were very clear about your desires you it wasn’t just about saving your marriage was it
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Coach Kathy: No, I knew the minute I read the part about you helping women in your living room that I wanted to help women in my living room. I just knew that if I could have that structure and that support and that accountability that I would be more likely to be successful than if I went it alone.
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Laura Doyle: And you have been very successful with your. So tell us a little bit about what your relationship is like now.
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Coach Kathy: Ah, oh my gosh, I have, I have the most amazing marriage, where my husband just does everything for me. He just cannot get enough of pleasing me, which was one of my spouse fulfilling prophecies, by the way.
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Coach Kathy: My husband always wants to please me. And so going from a sexless marriage to one where he’s just looking for all the ways to lighten my load. I mean, he
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Coach Kathy: cooks for me. He arranges our home to be clean. He takes care of all the cars and
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Coach Kathy: 10 years into my surrendering journey. No excuse me five years into my surrendering dirty Laura, I finally relinquish control the finances.
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Coach Kathy: So he’s been managing all of our finances for more than a decade. And we have more of an abundant life than I ever imagined possible
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Coach Kathy: And I just am so grateful that he handles everything from building new decks on our house to taking us on romantic trips. He took me to Belize one time and took me to the Caribbean. He’s taken me to
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Coach Kathy: Puerto Vallarta and Maui and just lots and lots of romantic trips, where there’s just lots of lavish gifts and fun. One year he bought me a beautiful sapphire ring and
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Coach Kathy: On our 25th WEDDING ANNIVERSARY bought me a new wedding set. And, uh, I just, it’s almost too good to stand Laura, if I’m honest.
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Laura Doyle: Wow. Wow. I mean, and this is the same. It doesn’t sound like it’s sexless anymore person.
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Coach Kathy: No, no, no, no.
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Coach Kathy: No, it’s all about pleasing me Laura.
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Laura Doyle: Gotcha.
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Laura Doyle: I like that. I like that. And so, and then in your relationship with your children and your stepchildren has been impacted to tell us about that.
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Coach Kathy: Oh, yes.
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Coach Kathy: You have those two children that came made havoc. When we first got married.
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Coach Kathy: Oh my gosh, they’re my kids, they’re just my kids, they’ve contributed to the joy in my life and I’m so grateful for them, accepting me as their mom and
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Coach Kathy: I just love those kids. They’re both married and have their own kids now and they admire me and Doug and what we have and they got to witness all four of our kids got to witness the transformation.
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Coach Kathy: And see this blended family succeed and now they’re proud and what their friends to know that marriage is something that can be possible and positive and
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Coach Kathy: I’m so I’m so proud of that. Yeah.
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Laura Doyle: Because you’ve fixed this family, not just your marriage, but your home.
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Laura Doyle: Now, you become a role model for like a beacon of hope.
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Coach Kathy: Possible.
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Laura Doyle: And it’s okay.
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Coach Kathy: I’m sorry, I can’t, I can’t leave out the fact that when when I started learning about the skills and especially the skill of respect.
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Coach Kathy: It just weighed heavy on my heart. How disrespectful. I was in my first marriage.
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Coach Kathy: And so as I was learning to be respectful with Doug, I realized I had an apology to make to my first husband in mind you, he had been estranged from his children for almost a decade.
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Coach Kathy: So that divorce that happened in my first marriage, it caused so much conflict that my kids didn’t get to see their debt for 10 years and then I was learning about the skill of respect and I wrote the apology letter.
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Coach Kathy: And it reconciled our relationship. Our friendship and my kids got their dad back. Wow. Wow.
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Laura Doyle: And your relationship with your ex husband is now a respectful one
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Laura Doyle: Yes. And that’s kind of amazing thing. So, so both of your families are healed, just from you taking the single handedly you’ve healed, both of those families.
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Laura Doyle: And now it’s not, it’s gone way beyond your family, hasn’t it
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Coach Kathy: Yes, I did. I, I, I did ask you to teach me how to have that circle in my living room and I’m so grateful that you said yes to a few of us in 2002
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Coach Kathy: I think it was, and
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Coach Kathy: Yeah, I’ve just known. I never wanted to leave your side and
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Coach Kathy: I just knew I needed other women, although it was the surprise, actually, to find out that connecting with other women being vulnerable with other women telling the truth about my struggles would
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Coach Kathy: Increase my own practice of the skills and and deepen my fulfillment and my purpose in life. I had no idea that was going to happen.
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Laura Doyle: And now you are a coaches coach you train all the coaches at Laura Doyle connect you lead the practicum you’re I mean you’re powerful you cause transformations breakthroughs and and and how does that impact your relationship.
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Coach Kathy: Oh, it’s just such an incredible experience to to
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Coach Kathy: Practice the skills with other women. There’s just no way you can be in a conversation with other women and then get off the phone and not consider your own self care, for example, or hear or see your own slip up, I still tell him how to drive Laura sometimes
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Coach Kathy: So if 19 years of practice skills, doesn’t mean I’m perfect. Right, I need this community. I want this community surrounding me
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Coach Kathy: And I’m so inspired by the courage and the commitment of other women. And it’s a reminder of where I once was and how I want to continue to get as good as it can stand you know
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Laura Doyle: So, and when you think about that woman who was knocking on the apartment door and found the other woman and was causing the scene.
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Laura Doyle: And saying, that’s my husband after you’ve made the ultimatum. Huh, what would you want to say to her about what do you know now that you’d want to say to her.
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Coach Kathy: Take a nap, honey.
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Coach Kathy: Didn’t have any self care. I didn’t have any
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Coach Kathy: Dignity, I didn’t, I didn’t know what being a dignified woman or wife was or I didn’t know what staying on my paper was. I didn’t even know what I wanted. Laura, I only focused on what I didn’t want
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Coach Kathy: I had no idea what a desire was
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Coach Kathy: And now it’s like I write my desires list every day because they all come true.
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Coach Kathy: That this work with these skills so
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Coach Kathy: I would just say,
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Coach Kathy: Be gentle with yourself and know there’s a possibility for you to turn it all around. If you really want to. And it just takes a courage and vulnerability and a commitment and if you can get a guide and the skills coach.
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Coach Kathy: You too can create all you want, and more. Yeah.
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Laura Doyle: And this is a this is incredibly personal stories difficult stories to talk about why are you are you willing to talk about these stories.
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Coach Kathy: I think I hid out for so long and didn’t tell the truth for so long that it became painful.
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Coach Kathy: And you know I was an accountant for 25 years and and just it just didn’t serve me to hide out behind that Excel spreadsheet. Oh, my computer and your courage to tell your story inspired me. Laura and
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Coach Kathy: I just thought, if I can make the difference for one woman, it would be worth telling my story and coming out of hiding. And so I’m grateful for those opportunities. You mentioned earlier about the Wall Street Journal or the BBC or some blogs. I’ve written on your website and
00:21:48.330 –> 00:22:07.290
Coach Kathy: I just find that the women. I get to talk to on the phone and connect with the more I can share that I’m just like them and they find courage and my story. The more we can make a dent in ending world divorce and and change families, one at a time.
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Laura Doyle: Beautiful Kathy. What’s it. What’s a tip for women who’s listening and she’s in one of the situations you’ve been in a sexless marriage or a guy who’s drinking and drugging or, you know, along with those two babies. What, what’s your tip for her.
00:22:29.070 –> 00:22:38.130
Coach Kathy: Choose your faith over your fear I just found that my mindset was so much part of the problem is that I just constantly looked at what was wrong.
00:22:38.700 –> 00:22:48.990
Coach Kathy: What I didn’t want. And there’s just a whole other side of the equation that is one that propels new actions that create different results.
00:22:49.410 –> 00:23:01.830
Coach Kathy: And so the tip would be to be willing and open minded perhaps experiment. Be willing to experiment. Give it 90 days practice the skills for 90 days and see what happens.
00:23:03.420 –> 00:23:07.170
Laura Doyle: If a woman. Some of these just aren’t working the skills are not working for me.
00:23:08.100 –> 00:23:14.910
Coach Kathy: Um, didn’t work. You know, in my experience, I’ve just never seen this skills, not work when they’re practiced.
00:23:15.690 –> 00:23:24.390
Coach Kathy: And so for me it’s probable that there’s a blind spot there. And all you need is a guide and a coach to stand for your marriage and you
00:23:24.720 –> 00:23:42.000
Coach Kathy: Mean, what would it be like to have you, Laura Doyle in your life. I don’t know how I could have what I have today. Laura, if it wasn’t for you standing by me and by my marriage for 19 years so I just say get a coach, it’s nothing like having a coach standing for your marriage.
00:23:42.960 –> 00:23:47.580
Laura Doyle: And now you are that woman that stands for all these other thousands of marriages.
00:23:47.610 –> 00:24:02.520
Laura Doyle: Now, and and there’s like no giving up like not on Kathy Murray’s watch. Are you gonna have anything less than a shiny vibrant amazing relationship and and you should have a lot of fans now because
00:24:02.880 –> 00:24:13.470
Laura Doyle: Your work and and you act and you run the entire company right you run all of Laura Doyle connect in addition to causing all these transformations
00:24:14.490 –> 00:24:19.890
Laura Doyle: And what I get from listening to you is that there’s a moral obligation. It’s got to be on passion.
00:24:20.730 –> 00:24:21.360
Coach Kathy: You
00:24:21.630 –> 00:24:31.410
Laura Doyle: Don’t want to live in a world where women don’t know don’t get the information, don’t get the support don’t get the help that they need to have the kind of marriage that you have today.
00:24:32.010 –> 00:24:39.150
Coach Kathy: It’s so true, I, I’m on a mission to get this in the school system. I, I, it’s true. Laura. Thank you so much. I
00:24:39.450 –> 00:24:50.610
Coach Kathy: I am just honored that I get to talk to women on our campus every day and empower coaches and train coaches. It’s true, and even fielding brand new women who find you.
00:24:51.210 –> 00:25:06.720
Coach Kathy: Because of your beautiful books or your blogs, which will now be your podcast which I’m so excited about to reach even more women, but I’m excited for them because I can see what’s going to unfold for them and
00:25:08.100 –> 00:25:18.840
Coach Kathy: I just don’t want another woman to suffer any longer than she needs to. And so, yes, I’m on a mission right alongside the Laura for the skills to get in the hands of every woman.
00:25:21.270 –> 00:25:24.990
Laura Doyle: Well, your passion is very evident so inspiring Kathy Thank you.
00:25:24.990 –> 00:25:28.620
Laura Doyle: So much for sharing. So authentically
00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:44.940
Laura Doyle: It’s clear. You’re a real woman, you really do exist. You really did have these challenges. These breakdowns and you really did find a solution for yourself. That is a beacon of hope for everyone. Thank you so much.
00:25:46.710 –> 00:25:47.250